Curse

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 15, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

idk, how retarded is human intelligence to not use the flags and flag heros out of aoe? prolly just as bad as hero AI eh?

Gift3d · Jun 15, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

There's no reason heroes shouldn't kite out of aoe, because monsters in hm kite away at 60mph as soon as you even think of looking at an aoe skill to use it.

Seraphim Angel · Jun 15, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Yes hero AI is broken and needs to be addressed BUT be careful what you wish for. If you want the heros to kite then next thing you know thats all they will do is run around and over aggro more than they already do. Your monk will run straight to 4 warriors and get pwned hard in seconds just to get out of AoE. I wish heros AI was as good as thier interrupt ability *sigh*

aoeclald · Jun 15, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

and enemies (lets all attack this 'tank', even if we can't hurt him, while bunch of soft targets stand just outside our aggro).

Errr, Guild Wars is very bad about this compared to other MMO's, in fact I am thinking you have a jewel of a tank. A lot of the times, mobs will run BY the tank into casters. Also, the purpose of having a tank to begin with is to take damage so the squishies don't die. If you have ever played any other MMO's, then you'll come to find that tanks come with threat-generating skills in order to hold aggro for this very purpose of having everyone else staying alive. What's the purpose of playing a squishy if you're just going to get one-shotted by every boss because you have nothing to take the damage?

Anyway, everyone always complains about how heroes are not as smart as humans. If that's the case, find a human player, learn to micro your heroes (c'mon, you're human, you're smart enough to play 4 bars at once, as well as move them all!) or find ways to counter hero AI deficiency by bringing skills that will help your cause. For example, bring Mantra of Flame to reduce the damage taken and gain energy, therefore standing in AoE could be somewhat beneficial. On that not, STOP COMPLAINING! You are the one at fault, not heroes.

MMSDome · Jun 15, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

I have found that you just need to move. Ie. you move somewhere and they will move out of the AoE.

and HM AI seems to kite AoE better than NM AoE (talking about monsters here). ie. Mr. Firestorm Ele in HM = dead team = monk raging at ele for not kiting and for bringing Firestorm.

--- edit --- and ROJ shouldn;t cause AoE scatter cause Monks delivering holy judgement upon evil monsters is the gods way of saying "die evil NPC monsters"

Shouldn't even need to flag them as heros shouldn't be so damned brain dead. If I am already macroing 4 characters it is hard to worry about flagging them out of aoe.

Seriously try it see how you do every time someone tries to lay a spike on a character with shit tons of aoe. If you flag them out you can't macro the healing skills because they wait to get to the flagged position to cast so either way you will die.

Flagging out does not work.

MirkoTeran · Jun 15, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoeclald

Errr, Guild Wars is very bad about this compared to other MMO's, in fact I am thinking you have a jewel of a tank. A lot of the times, mobs will run BY the tank into casters. Also, the purpose of having a tank to begin with is to take damage so the squishies don't die. If you have ever played any other MMO's, then you'll come to find that tanks come with threat-generating skills in order to hold aggro for this very purpose of having everyone else staying alive. What's the purpose of playing a squishy if you're just going to get one-shotted by every boss because you have nothing to take the damage?

Other games being worse in this area doesn't make GW AI good. It just makes it a bit better then theirs. But in any case AI in most MMOs is non-existant (at least compared to some SP games). Its like winning special Olympics.

upier · Jun 15, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

There's no reason heroes shouldn't kite out of aoe, because monsters in hm kite away at 60mph as soon as you even think of looking at an aoe skill to use it.

I LOVE it when my guys that are under SY!, TNtF! and ToF! run around like headless chickens when standing in a Firestorm despite taking next to 0 damage.
One of those precious moments that makes me cherish GW.

aoeclald · Jun 15, 2009, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

Other games being worse in this area doesn't make GW AI good. It just makes it a bit better then theirs. But in any case AI in most MMOs is non-existant (at least compared to some SP games). Its like winning special Olympics.

You read it backwards. I am saying that Guild Wars AI is worse than other games. Sorry for being unclear.

Gli · Jun 15, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoeclald

You read it backwards. I am saying that Guild Wars AI is worse than other games. Sorry for being unclear.

I don't get it... You say that "A lot of the times, mobs will run BY the tank into casters."

You meant GW's mobs, right? And that's worse than most games?

Bluefeather · Jun 16, 2009, 03:19 AM // 03:19

OMG!!! I finished all the campaigns and GWEN in 5 characters and I didnt notice that my Heroes are not avoiding AoE.

LOL I think i am dumber than Heroes coz i really dont run away from AoE.

Really, i never noticed that Heroes are that bad. I just finished the game with my latest character -- NECRO. My main hero setup is not even Sabway or Discord way, I have 2 mm and Dunk and i usually end up fine. Completed Protector of Tyria and Cantha and thinking to do Protector of Elonia too (but im now more interested in Ele which I have already started yesterday.)

I have finished the game with my Warrior, Ranger, Monk and Paragon using only H/H and didnt have so much problem with AoE.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 16, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There should be two types of AI: instintive and intelligent.

A behemoth, a creeping carp or an ntouka should not be aware of a character is being a healer. They should just attack the nearst thing that is damaging them, or the thing that damages them more.

But humanoids and intelligent creatures should be more aware and select targets.

discrimination!!!! who says that a ntouka should not have intelligence? who is to say that humans are more intelligent than dolphins?

MirkoTeran · Jun 16, 2009, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoeclald

You read it backwards. I am saying that Guild Wars AI is worse than other games. Sorry for being unclear.

Errrr, what? Please explain how all mobs running to the tank instead of going for the soft targets is better, from AI point of view?

Aera · Jun 16, 2009, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

There's no reason heroes shouldn't kite out of aoe, because monsters in hm kite away at 60mph as soon as you even think of looking at an aoe skill to use it.

QFT. That's what makes it even more frustrating. They do kite, retarded heroes and henchmen don't.

Shadowmere · Jun 16, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

on another random note about hero AI, i've noticed lately that when I have the whole group of h/h flagged and unflag them while standing a distance away from them, half or more of the group will run in the opposite direction of me for a ways before realizing it or something and turning around...it's yet to get me killed but I can see it causing some very nasty unexpected over-aggroing. Especially so when you consider that most of the set up for this situation is common longbow pulling procedure (flag heroes, go ahead and take a cheap shot at the baddies, run back/unflag)

tasha · Jun 16, 2009, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I don't get it... You say that "A lot of the times, mobs will run BY the tank into casters."

You meant GW's mobs, right? And that's worse than most games?

I think the point was that there are no skills in game to raise a threat level to make the AI attack the tank only, it is down to the tank's skill as a player (and the team's co-operation) to make this happen. If the tank is too close to the main team, or someone from the main team bridges aggro then the AI will run past the tank to the casters, and there's no way to correct the mistake which can lead to a party wipe.

I personally don't have a problem with this system and kinda like it, but I can see where it frustrates people. Especially when they're used to an aggro system.

Gli · Jun 16, 2009, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Yeah, I got that... but I would call that better AI than the AI in games that don't do this. Not worse.

Burst Cancel · Jun 16, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

If you're playing in hero battles, you need to be flagging your heroes. The entire point of that format is hero micro; if you aren't going to do it, don't play. It's like playing Starcraft with ctrl-click only and then wondering why you keep losing.

The concepts of tanking and aggro need to exit gaming entirely. I'm not sure where the farce of "oh, monsters will just ignore the soft and chewy targets nuking the shit out of them, and focus entirely on the heavily armored and heavily enchanted guy in front that does no damage" originated (perhaps from the warrior + mage combos in fantasy novels?), but it needs to die.